1. ARGUMENT FROM UNINTELLIGENCE
[1] Okay, I don't pretend to be as intelligent as you guys -- you're obviously very well read. But I read the Bible, and nothing you say can convince me that God does not exist. I feel him in my heart, and you can feel him too, if you'll just ask him into your life. "For God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son into the world, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish from the earth." John 3:16.
[2] Therefore, God exists.
2. ARGUMENT FROM BLINDNESS
[1] Atheists are spiritually blind.
[2] Therefore, God exists.
3. ARGUMENT FROM FALLIBILITY
[1] Human reasoning is inherently flawed.
[2] Therefore, there is no reasonable way to challenge a proposition.
[3] I propose that God exists.
[4] Therefore, God exists.
4. ARGUMENT FROM SHEER WILL
[1] I DO believe in God! I DO believe in God! I do I do I do I DO believe in God!
[2] Therefore, God exists.
5. ARGUMENT FROM INCOHERENT BABBLE
[1] See that person spazzing on the church floor babbling incoherently?
[2] That's how infinite wisdom reveals itself.
[3] Therefore, God exists.
6. ARGUMENT FROM BIOGENESIS
[1] Where did Adam come from, dummy?
[2] Therefore, God exists.
7. ARGUMENT FROM ARGUMENTATION
[1] God exists.
[2] [Atheist's counterargument]
[3] Yes he does.
[4] [Atheist's counterargument]
[5] Yes he does!
[6] [Atheist's counterargument]
[7] YES HE DOES!!!
[8] [Atheist gives up and goes home]
[9] Therefore, God exists.
8. ARGUMENT FROM CREATION
[1] If evolution is false, then creationism is true, and therefore God exists.
[2] Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it; moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable
[3] Therefore, God exists.
9. ARGUMENT FROM INFINITE REGRESS
[1] Ask Atheists what caused the Big Bang.
[2] Regardless of their answer, ask how they know this.
[3] Continue process until the Atheist admits he doesn't know the answer to one of your questions.
[4] You win!
[5] Therefore, God exists.
10. PEACOCK ARGUMENT FROM SELECTIVE MEMORY
[1] [Christian asks "stumper" question]
[2] [Atheist answers question]
[3] [A lapse of time]
[4] [Christian repeats question]
[5] [Atheist repeats answer]
[6] [A lapse of time]
[7] [Christian repeats question]
[8] [Atheist repeats answer]
[9] [A lapse of time]
[10] Atheist, you never answered my question.
[11] Therefore, God exists.
11. ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL SANITY
[1] I've had religious experiences that can't be explained unless I'm insane or God exists.
[2] Therefore, God exists.
12. ARGUMENT FROM LACK OF DISPROOF
[1] You can't prove God doesn't exist!
[2] Therefore, God exists.
Now if you read them all and still don't believe in God -- you're an idiot.
9 comments:
Your Sinfulness,
Another triumph of satire. Juvenal would be proud of you. Our commendations!
Our favorite is #4. But wasn't that from the wizard of Oz? But it was the tinman who needed a brain.
these frontal lobotomy Prots give we true Christians a bad name. What intellectual dishonesty. "It is true because I feel it is true!" Five hundred years ago we were burning these fools and at least possibly saving their souls.
Nicolas Eymeric
Proof # 13:
(1) I am aware through reflection and empirical investigation of my own freedom and ability to deliberate rationally between alternative choices.
(2) I Observe, empirically, that all objects in nature are subject to determined causality. That is, every cause has its effect. Physical objects must do as they do; they have no choice.
(3) Since I am aware of my own freedom and rational self-determination, I cannot conclude that I am subject totally to the iron-clad law of cause and effect.
(4) Now, every effect has a cause. This is a fundamental law of human knowledge. Therefore, there must be a principle or cause that is sufficient to explain human freedom and rational self-determination.
(5) Now, an effect cannot be greater than its cause; this is a fundamental rule of logic. Therefore, the cause or principle of human freedom and rational self-determination must be GREATER than finite human freedom and self-determination.
(6) Now, in nature, we observe no cause which could explain this freedom and self-determination, but only physical cause and effect which is necessary.
(7) Therefore, one can conclude that the principle or cause of human freedom and rational self-determination is not physical, but non-finite and greater than what it produces in man. This infinite, absolute Reason and freedom is what everyone calls God.
Therefore, My human freedom and rational self-determination proves the existence of a Cause or Principle sufficient to explain human nature. This Principle is the infinite Reason and Uncaused (Self-Caused) Freedom of God, "the Prime Mover."
Q.E.D
The loyal opposition,
Nicolas Eymeric
No, it does not. It's an argument utilizing the "God of Gaps" fallacy. It's fallacious therefore it has no logical bearing. The simple question remains, "If God doesn't need a cause -- then why does anything else?" If God can "Cause" himself to exist, then so can the universe.
The universe is a totality of finite causes. No finite cause or principle can be proposed to sufficiently explain that totality without incurring the logical impossibility of the infinite regress of finite causes. You continue to treat the idea of "self-cause" as one finite cause amongst many finite causes.
"It is" does not need to explain its causality. It is the infinite ground which causes all finite causality as experienced in the empirical realm. It is the logically deduced "necessary" Being which explains all "contingent" beings.
But Your Sinfulness has not addressed our brilliant logical deduction that intelligent freedom needs a sufficient cause to explain its existence. I expereince my freedom just as I experience a stone thrown at a pond and causing a ripple. My rational self-determination requires a cause SUFFICIENT t explain it's reality. San Tomas de Aquino, pray for us! In sake non est veritas.
Nicolas Eymeric
It has been scientifically proven that dolphins call each other by a specific sound, or name -- and Elephants have painted self portraits -- a sign of being conscience. Evolution. I see no brilliance in your particular argument, just the very expected "GODDIDIT" philosophy. Furthermore, the whole, "Everything that exists needs to be created, hence, it needs a creator" is pointless if you can't answer how God exist then. If it's possible for God to just exist, then it's just as possible for anything else to simply exist -- and be justified with the simple, "IT IS." Only, in terms of mathematic probability, the universe just existing is insanely more probable than "GOD" just existing.
The empirical hypothesis that dolphins and elephants are "conscious" was never a matter for dispute here. Even if they are "self-conscious", as opposed to merely sentient---as are cats and rats and even insects--even if they are rational and self-determined, that hardly matters. My argument would then apply to them too. A dolphin would then be able to reason from his interior state to the conclusions we suggested in our previous posts. We have direct experience of our inner state, not of dolphins'
You are continuing to confuse our argument with "creationism" or making of the universe in time by some anthropomorphic god. Our argument, like Aquinas', is totally reconcilable with an eternal existence, of which God is the eternal necessary source, Being, and all finite beings are the contingent dependencies.
You must answer how a physical finite cause can be sufficient to explain human (or dolphin) rational self-determination and freedom.
To say that we have deduced this proposition does not suggest that it would not have to be verified at some point. Science is not a stranger to that sort of proposition.
N
I don't know, but that doesn't mean that "GODDIDIT". Whether it's the Christian God or the God of philosophy -- neither are something to fall back onto. I'm satisfied, like Einstein, with the mystery of the universe and life itself.
If you are satisfied with Einstein's vision of Reason manifesting itself through the empirical multiplicity of our experience, then you are satisfied with the God of philosophy. Even Spinoza held that the "natura naturans" must explain both physical and psychical reality, since they were both consituents of the observed and experienced "natura naturata." In the end, we are born into mystery and wonder. aristotle says that all knowledge begins with wonder--both at the visible realm before our eyes, as well the invisible realm that exists between our ears.
N
Proof #14
(1) the mind can be open to God only when expanded in it essential capacities. For by nature, we can only know God analogically.
(2) Now, there is no known method of expanding the mind other than the consumption of large quatities of Nihon-shu, otherwise known as sake. All enlightened men would accede to this assertion. That would exclude Muslims and Negroes.
(3) It is clearly demonstrated that the consumption of sake elevates the mind to the contemplation of God, and unifies one with the ground of Being. As a personal anecdote, I have journeyed to the godhead several times floating on the great river of sake!
(4) all proofs for the existence of God rest upon expansion of the intellect, which has been established to be impossible without the aid of sake.
(5) Clearly that which leads to God, originates in God, as its source, since an effect must originate in its cause. Since sake opens the intellect to God, and gives experiential knowledge of God, it must prove the existence of its necessary cause.
(6) therefore, it can be shown that the existence of sake proves the existence of God. QED Kampai!!
Hito Rensho
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